Andy Becomes Pain free And Drug Free
You're about to learn:
- How Andy discovered the Paddison Program for RA
- Tips for reversing Rheumatoid Arthritis in the Elbows
- Reducing fat content on meat can lower it's negative effects on RA
- Be careful playing with fire
- How faith in God helped so much with battling this disease
- How Andy can train his body to handle tennis again
- Getting rid of Rheumatoid Arthritis nodules
- Clint will be continuing his live meet-ups with Paddison Program Forum members in New Zealand
This podcast does not constitute medical advice. All changes surrounding medications, diet and exercise should be made in consultation with a professional who can assist your unique health circumstances.
Andy: Eating foods like I'm eating now that have made me healthier and changed the gut bacteria and everything else, it's made me acutely more aware of what an amazing creation the human body is. And God created this body so it could heal itself and you know that as well. It's amazing how when we treat it right the way God originally intended us to treat it, it comes back into perfect harmony.
Welcome to the Paddison Program where you'll learn how to improve your health from the inside out, and now your host, Clint Paddison.
Clint: Welcome back to the Paddison Podcast. This is going to be fun. I have got a Kiwi on the line today. He's on the call because he's done really well applying lots of the strategies of the Paddison Program and some other aspects that he'll tell us about. And so, Andy, welcome to the episode.
Andy: Thanks, Clint! Pleasure to be here.
Clint: Mate, you're looking well.
Andy: I'm feeling great. I'm feeling fantastic
Clint: Tell us, what have you've been up to? You've obviously been having a history of rheumatoid arthritis. So tell us how that began and just take us through the steps of what you did.
Andy: Sure. Well, I actually think I had the first signs of rheumatoid probably 10 years ago when I found a lump in the knuckle of my index finger, and it was there for a long time. I went to the doctor for an x-ray, "Nothing at all, good, don't worry about it." And for years I had off and on aches and pains over a decade in various joints. And then it was May last year. I'm not sure if the flu injections set it off or whatever, but I've never had a flu injection in my life. And I had a flu injection, and within a week, I woke up one morning and I just felt like I'd been hit by a bus. I went to the doctor. My knuckle was particularly sore and they thought I might have gout, but I thought, "Well, if it was gout, why would I be sore elsewhere?" And they tested me for that and of course it was negative. And then they tested me for rheumatoid and found that my anti-CCP and my CRP levels where pretty much off the charts. So 40 milligrams of Prednisone and Brufen was prescribed and that started it all.
Clint: Forty milligrams of Prednisone.
Andy: That was what I kicked off on, because I had it in my shoulders, elbows, wrists, hands. I had it in my hips, my knees, my ankles, everywhere.
Clint: Yep, similar to myself. It really spread all over the body. Where was most debilitating? What was the joint or joints that where really holding you back the most?
Andy: Probably the elbows to be honest, and the elbows have been the thing that have ongoing given me the most difficulty. And they're the first ones to tell me that you've added something into your diet that you shouldn't, because I found that just washing your hair in the shower or something, you put your hands up and you... [groans] The elbows would be sore. That was usually the one that was the worst. Otherwise it would be the shoulders as well, because I've got an office job with a lot of typing.
Clint: Okay, so this is really good. For listeners, Andy and I haven't spoken before. In fact, this is the first time we've communicated other than a little bit of customer support, wasn't it? An email, I recall.
Andy: That's right
Clint: And then you've just contacted me within the last day or so on Facebook and wrote a wonderful sort of short, brief summary of success on my Facebook page. And that's what we've done is then we've quickly connected. And that's the little background here. And so we haven't put together a plan for this talk, because as an Aussie and a New Zealander, we're very laid back and we thought, "Well, let's just wing it."
Clint: So this is going to unfold really interestingly because let's talk about elbows because I haven't spoken about elbows much, if at all, on any of the previous podcast episodes and I think that I can impart some suggestions on elbows before we get back to your story.
Clint: So with the elbows, just like you, the elbows were my most problematic area. In fact, I had to have surgery on my left elbow only about two years after getting diagnosed.
Andy: I remember that.
Clint: That's some serious stuff, right? One of the big mistakes I made with my left elbow was not moving it enough. I was advised by medical professionals that I was consulting with to rest the elbow because it was inflamed and you want to go easy on it. And this was my left elbow and I did that. I just tried to protect it. And in hindsight, I should have been moving the heck out of it because I've found that with the right elbow, which subsequently developed problems as well but never needed the surgery, the more I moved it, the better it was. And so, there were some specific exercises that I found really helpful for rehabilitating the elbow. So I'll tell you what they are.
So first of all, things that didn't work. What didn't work was doing reverse, behind the head raises like this with some . . . So what I'm demonstrating to listeners is some behind the head, I guess you'd call them, tricep curls, lifting a barbell behind the head and raising up. In fact, doing that at one point actually aggravated my right elbow, because I kept trying to lift more and more and more weight because I was trying to put weight back on and build up my strength in my arms and also strengthen the elbow. What worked in the same way that what seems to work for the knee is all pushing away exercises. So that's anything that's like a push-up but on a gentler scale.
Andy: Leaning against a wall maybe?
Clint: Leaning against a wall if you've really, really got weakness in the elbows, and that's where I started off just very gentle stuff. And now I can use the bench press. I can't lift this kind of weight that I used to. I'm 39 now and I didn't used to do bench press since I was in my 20s. So obviously I was a lot stronger then and without a debilitating joint condition. But now I'm just left with the damage in those elbows and they do... Well, the left one is fine but the right one will tend to complain if I put too much weight on those-- on a bench press. And so I also don't take the elbows beyond a 90-degree angle. So if I am doing bench press, I'll just bring it down until, of course I'm lying on my back, until my elbows are at a right angle. And I never take it beyond that because then you really start to engage the little connective tissues at the bottom of the triceps and they are ones that get caught up in the inflammation.
Andy: Right, I'm going to note that down.
Clint: Yeah, so don't go beyond 90 degrees. Push away from your body with all your training exercises with your elbows and keep moving them at all times. Now there's another thing that I used to do. I still do this when I just want to really keep the elbows moving, because now I'm in a rehabilitation stage still. I will always be in a rehab stage with my elbows just like you. They have always been the most difficult things to get back to perfectly normal. Not just the inflammation, but now also just trying to straighten them out because they developed a bit of a warp and just a robustness.
I guess pushing away never more than 90 degrees, lots of movement, and the movement that I would do was simply to bend over at the waist and then just . . . I'll show you, which is hard to convey via audio but just doing . . .
Andy: Oh, yep. Yeah.
Clint: Okay. So what it looks like I'm doing, it looks like I'm doing punches but I'm punching towards the floor and I'm bent over at the hips so that my back is straight and I'm just punching towards. Now I would do hundreds of those a day and that used to really get the blood moving through the elbows really nicely. It doesn't load the elbow at all and that was a great way of helping the elbows. That's my best tips for elbows, and lots of stretches, always stretching the triceps. Constantly doing tricep stretches. And arms out to the side like airplane wings trying to touch each of the two walls and squeeze the elbows, like hold tight into the elbow joint and squeeze them, because we're trying to engage the ligaments and tendons, because they all get weak and brittle and you're trying to get them to strengthen and thicken.
Andy: Thanks for that, Clint. That's really great. I'm writing some of those things down, because my elbows, they give me trouble in even daily life. I've said to you before I'm going to the supermarket soon. If I get a basket at the supermarket, I find being an impulse buyer, you go in there thinking you get three things and the basket ends up quite full and heavy, especially if there's some drinks or something. Of course you're putting a lot of strain on the elbows. And if I'm carrying four or five supermarket bags out maybe two or three in each hand, that's where I find that my elbows start to go. So I'll use those exercises. Thank you.
Clint: Yep, and I've been through that many, many times. I've had those thoughts thousands of times. And what I've experimented over time is rotate the forearm out, so that your palm faces forward more. Let me stand up and demonstrate again. So like that.
Clint: Okay, and what I'm doing there for the listeners is instead of holding the basket so that your palms of your grip are facing your leg, turn the palms of your grip forward so that they kind of are moving with you in the same direction as the body. And then squeeze into the elbow again. You're squeezing in there that's tightening and locking up the elbow so that little jars of your steps, little movements forward, twists and turns aren't inflaming those little delicate, brutal connective tissues. So experiment with that. A lot of this is trial and error but that's what worked for me.
Andy: Brilliant. Thanks, Clint.
Clint: No worries, mate. All right, so let's get back to your 40 milligrams of Prednisone. Now that's a big dose.
Andy: Yeah, that's indicative of how bad I was at the time.
Clint: Yep, and you're on the non-steroidal anti-inflammatory?
Andy: Correct. So my doctor initially prescribed 800 milligrams of that a day. And once I got to see my rheumatologist, which was probably a couple of months down the track from the doctor's appointment, he said that you could take 1600 a day quite comfortably. So I was taking that with the omeprazole thinking that protects your stomach, but of course I found out otherwise. But the 40 milligrams, that was I think three days, and then it immediately went to 20. And then 20 was either, I think from memory, it was 20 milligrams for five days after that, and then 15-10. And then I held on 10 for a wee while and I eventually managed to get down to five but it took quite a while to get down to five.
It was many months. And then five was sort of after many months stabilizing five milligrams of Prednisone , 1600 milligrams of Brufen, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories every day and that was pretty much what I was on because I got Rheumatoid the 4th of June – you never forget that date do you? Fourth of June last year I woke up in the morning and it was the day my life changed.
Clint: Well as you know from my book, sometimes I think it's hard for a lot of people listening to agree with this. At various stages they have their disease progress but at some stage it is possible to look back and say it was actually one of the best things that have happened to me in my life.
Andy: I actually say that now! I never thought I'd say that. But you know Clint that was one of the best things that could have happened because everyone used to think I lived quite a healthy life and I thought I had quite a healthy diet, but you don't realize by all the grazing we do in our Western society just the junk that you're putting into your body. That was the greatest thing. But do you want to know how I got onto your program? I actually moved into a new house and speaking to the next-door neighbor and his son who was in his late 20s, he had Rheumatoid Arthritis and he told me about this Paddison Program and how incredible it was. I listened intently and he told me about it so I went straight inside and I Google-ed it and downloaded the book straight away – cause it all looked great – nd I read it. and that was in September of last year. And I read it, skim read it, and I thought "That's was too hard, that's like a vegan diet" You couldn't do it, no human being could do that and I put it aside and said "I would have to be just about dead before I do that!" Give up coffee, give up red meat, give up all the things that I love the most? No way! This Aussie's lost it. And anyway, I thought the pain would have to be pretty bad before I'd get into it. And it wasn't until March this year that I'd seen the Rheumatologist in January and he said if I couldn't get completely off Prednisone by the time I saw him again in June, it was going to be Methotrexate. And that looming did wind up going on to Methotrexate and knowing all the bad things about it, I thought. That's what motivated me really. The fact that I was in more pain, knew I was going to have to higher drugs and Methotrexate I thought "No it's time to get out the Paddison Program and have a look."
Clint: That is a fabulous story. You know I just got an email last night that I read out to my wife, Melissa. Every now and then one catches my interest enough to read to her... that I think she'll find interesting and the email was... I'm paraphrasing, but it was Thanks for all the wonderful information that you provide. I hope, too, to be able to get off my medications one day, but I have to say there is no way – and she wrote it in block letters – that I could ever do a vegan diet, I just don't have the discipline. and then Love... and then her name. And I replied to her and I said, Look, you know, don't give up on that possibility of being able to just make some changes... that you'll tell us about in a second. You look fantastic and you look healthy. You're obviously very, very happy. Much happier now than what you were before in the middle of drugs and pain. "Don't..." I said to her "Don't give up on that possibility, because really, it's not as difficult as you think. It's hard, but not as hard as living a life in pain, frustration and facing surgeries." It wasn't for me, that future. I just tried to encourage her. Look, it's not as hard as living with a disease with all these other problems, you know?
Andy: Absolutely, absolutely. And for me, I had to get to that point where the pain was bad enough that I said "You know what? If I could give up coffee, and red meat, and meat, per se, all the things that I really love and cream buns and banana cake and what have you. If I can give up all that and be pain free? I'd do it in a heartbeat." Because I got to the point where the pain in my left hand, this knuckle, I've got quite a nodule on there. I'll always have that. But that knuckle was so bad that I would be squeezing the living daylights out of my hand and I said to my wife one day "You know if someone said to me right now 'I would amputate your index finger and take your knuckle with it to get rid of the pain,' I would have said do it now!" And that was really the turning point because I thought if it's that bad I'm going to end up on heavier drugs and I knew what the prognosis was there. And so, that's when I brought out the book again and decided right, ANZAC Day. Quite Ironic isn't it, ANZAC day was the exact day I decided I'm starting the program.
Clint: So let me explain, because we've got a lot of listeners who don't live in Australia and New Zealand, but ANZAC Day stands for "Australian and New Zealand Army Corp" and it is a day that we celebrate to remember all of the soldiers from Australia and New Zealand who entered World War I, wasn't it? Was it World War I?
Andy: That's correct
Clint: And many, many, many thousands of Australians and New Zealanders died fighting together for, at the time we considered the "Mother Land," which was England. And so, we joined to help support England's efforts and were sent into a massacre. So what an interesting day, that's a day that we share in our hearts for Australians and New Zealanders. So that's a nice touch, that's a really nice touch.
Andy: Yeah. ANZAC day was when I decided I was going to start the program and I read the book thoroughly on ANZAC Day. Went out the next day, bought the things I needed and set about doing the cleanse and I thought wow I appreciate it, again, that you'd written that 'You're going to feel bad' because forewarned is forearmed. So I felt pretty weak that first couple of days. I guess... Sorry I did forget to say that prior to that I had thought, “I wonder if I could do 70% of what's in the book?” So for three weeks I had given up a lot of bad things but not stuck to your program strictly thinking that that was going to be just as good. But it doesn't. And if there is one caution or encouragement I would give to any of the listeners is "Don't fool yourself into thinking that you can cheat the program, that you can shortcut it somehow. There's no shortcuts to success. Just go straight into it, stick to the program 100%. Buckwheat and Quinoa and Amaranth for breakfast." I love it. Once I got into the program, I just found that I was a few percent better every day and that was another good thing to feel 2% better every day, in 50 days you'll be pain-free. That's what happened.
Clint: Yeah, that's just textbook stuff. So tell us, how long after you started were you able to get off that five milligram remaining amount of Prednisone and then also, if you could go into detail about how you tapered that Prednisone. Because within our community forum we have a very, very, established and mature thread where people have explained how they have gotten off their Prednisone. So it's something that always interests me because we've got lots of comparative stories. I have developed in there, along with everyone else, sort of a protocol for how to get off Prednisone. And so, I'm curious as to how you did it.
Andy: Sure, okay. With my subsidence of symptoms and then deciding when I was going to reduce medication I talked with my Rheumatologist previously about wanting to reduce Prednisone. He had told me that you can't come off it too fast. I had said I'd go five to four, four for a week, and then so on and sort of counting down one milligram a week. But he then said that was too fast. As soon as I started to feel better and I've got to say within a week on the program I was feeling infinitely better. So I immediately cut it to four and I held it there for a wee while. And then by the time I finished the second week and started adding things in, I was feeling so great I thought I could cut it back further then. And just as a wee side bar, I think the other thing is that I didn't fully appreciate just how fantastic I was going to feel. Aside from getting rid of the pain, I was sleeping better, I had more energy, I had more mental focus. I thought I had a really bad memory, but I just discovered it was actually probably my brain going foggy from years of junk food. All those things came which made me feel mentally better about getting off the drugs, too. Two weeks down the track I got down to four, then after that, I held that for probably another two weeks and then I took it down to three and so on from there. I tried to cut it down to two but I found that I still had some pain. I had cut the Brufen down to 800 milligrams as well and I was confused about "How do you come off Brufen, how do you come off Prednisone?" I didn't realize Brufen you can stop taking cold turkey. So essentially where I ended up was three milligrams of Prednisone, 800 milligrams of Brufen and I seemed to be okay there until I saw my Rheumatologist in June. And then, that's when he said to me that "You could come off this probably more quickly now because you've got no pain, so maybe a couple of weeks at two milligrams a couple of weeks at one, etc." On the 17th of June – I must have seen him at the end of May – so the 17th of June was when I took my last one milligram tablet of Prednisone, and since then, I haven't taken any. What's that? Nearly six weeks?
Clint: Wow, Okay. So the total amount from coming off, from five milligram down to zero...
Andy: Yeah that would be the 28th of...
Andy: Sorry, no, 28th of April. Twenty-eighth of April through to the 17th of June.
Clint: Okay. April, May, June. Okay, less than two months.
Andy: Yeah. I mean the end, mine was a pretty miraculous one. For me, I found that right near the end there because I had been so strict on the program, my wife says "Andy, you're the kind of person that if you do something you do it boots and all." And I stuck so strictly to your program I was getting the absolute full benefit, I'm sure. Three weeks down the track I was feeling so great I did decide to add some things that I shouldn't because I thought "I'm healed, fantastic! No more Rheumatoid" because I felt that great. And so I quickly celebrated with a steak. And the very next day I woke up and I wished I hadn't had that steak. I was in so much pain, but the great thing was I loaded myself up with the green juices again and within 48 hours I had it back under control.
Clint: See, and that's the power of it. That's the power of control, the ability to influence the disease is way greater than most people realize. Although I think my listeners are understanding more and more that you do have a tremendous amount of control over this disease. But it's just the strings that most people are willing to pull are not the ones that are necessary to pull to influence the control. So that is absolutely great. Now, what about with regards to exercise? You look really fit. What have you done in terms of exercise? Australian Open!?
Andy: I tell you what. I haven't been planning to. That's what I've been watching my son play a lot. That was my favorite sport, but of course it's high impact on elbows and things like that. So I haven't been able to play tennis again yet. But I'm very close to it. I have had a hit recently where I was able to hit a ball just gently and I didn't have elbow pain. But mostly I've just been walking, on the bike, gardening. I've found gardening quite good because you can just vary what you do in the garden to make sure that you're not doing any impact, but I wouldn't have been out doing any vigorous exercise per se. Just lots a activity. But walking is so good. And you know, swing your arms when you're walking is good to get the heart rate up and that as well. Just general things like that. And [inaudible [00:24:05] yoga.
Clint: You haven't done it?
Clint: It's always there waiting for you like a big menace that can draw you in. So tell us what are you eating now? How far have you come with your reintroductions? Are you able to eat mostly from the foods in the recipe book that come from the online package?
Andy: Clint, I've actually gone way beyond that. I'm eating chicken. I only stick to free-range and organic things. But I'm eating chicken. I just have skinless, free-range chicken breasts and I also eat salmon. And I've found that those two things don't seem to affect me at all. I did find the salmon was a little bit too oily because I found I'm really sensitive to oils and fats now. I've found if I took the skin off the salmon, no issue whatsoever, because most of the fat in the salmon is just under the skin. And I just grill everything, so again, if I have salmon, again, I put loads of herbs and garlic. Garlic is in everything! And I grill those, sothat's been great. Potatoes I'm fine with. Tomatoes I seem fine with as well. And so, there's quite a lot of things that I've added in that have really helped me a lot. But by and large, I stick to your program. I have no dairy, no gluten, no processed foods. If I turn something over and it's got numbers in it, or inverted sugar syrups and all those things, it doesn't go into my body. And I just drink water, Rooibos tea, I love Rooibus. And I was a big coffee drinker. I've got a fancy home cafe coffee machine to the left here. But I don't use that anymore, I just make it for friends. I'm doing great!
Clint: Yeah, that is absolutely brilliant. Just, you might want to look at being able to... are you able to eat dals and lentils?
Andy: Yes, I can, I can. And I have had those. I had Lentil soup is something that I do have.
Clint: Awesome! No problem with basmati rice, brown rice?
Andy: No, I found if I have too much of the basmati rice, just the white rice, that does start to cause issues, but brown rice never. And you know I can have sushi. I just get sushi with just salmon and avocado and I specifically ask for the brown rice and they make it for you. Which is a sneaky way to get it fresher, actually, and that's great. I don't have any problem with that and I just don't put the soy sauce on it.
Clint: Yeah, that's wonderful. Your comment about the oils, that's universal. You mentioned that you noticed that you feel more sensitive to the oils now. That's something that... like if you listen to Doctor Caldwell Esselstyn, and all of the really, really famous plant-based experts, Collin Campbell, all these guys. They go into extraordinary detail about why the free oils, even the olive oil, the flax-seed oil. All of the various oils that we can purchase with this deep desire for Omega-3s, it's completely unnecessary and it's harmful for the gut wall. And so, we shouldn't be consuming oils. They're just not found in nature. If you go outside and you eat an olive, then you're getting oils in amongst the fiber and all the other nutrients that come with that olive, but there's no manufacturing firm in nature that's sitting next to the tree that converts 1,000 olives into, like, 100 milliliters of oil that you then pour all over your salad. It's just not natural, the body doesn't know how to break it down. It is inflammatory to the gut-wall and it causes leaky gut. And so, that's what's going on is when the oil is presented to your intestinal wall, it's allowing more foreign particles to enter the bloodstream. So you're very much the same with everyone on that. It's just that you're in touch with it and most people are not. So yeah, very interesting about the animal foods. Now obviously you now know my feelings on this and I've been through this a lot longer given that your experience is very recent. I just want to provide some caution with that because you don't want a little bit here and there to turn into a regular usage of it to the extent that it becomes something that's really common in your diet. Because I think that if I wanted to get Rheumatoid Arthritis back again I could probably do it if I decided to really eat all the things that I now am very well versed at knowing are bad for me, right?
Clint: So, that would start with oils and dairy products, but it would include meats as well. And we know from the scientific literature that meat is one of the most aggravating foods for RA. But what you're doing with removing the skin from the salmon and then grilling both foods as well so a lot of the oil drips out is very interesting. It's very interesting.
Andy: But also, not only that, I do only have free-range as well because I'm anxious about artificial proteins or anything that's been added them, injected in animals or whatever. I don't know. Or what they feed them. But the other thing is with my chicken I've found that I just cut it up very fine and then I just put it in a pan, no oil. You don't need oil to fry chicken. Who knew that? and you just put it in there and I just sear it and so I put that into a salad. It still looks very much like a spurt salad because you know my salads are huge! Loads and loads of leafy greens and I put some seeds in it and lots of sprouts and all those sorts of things. Chop up a good load of cucumber in there and then the chicken for me just sets it off and gives me a bit of a boost. I take what you say on board because I was thinking "Even though when I eat this chicken I don't immediately have a flare up" in the back of my mind I'm thinking "Is this just slowly building up and slowly building up and slowly building up and then one day down the track I'm goingto wake up and go bang, what's that all about?
Clint: Well I've got some comments on that that are probably going to be a bit of a surprise to a lot of people. My feeling is probably not and the reason is is because you're doing all of the other things right. Now, if you weren't putting that chicken on top a phenomenal amount of insanely health salad base then, yes you are 100% creating a cumulative problem. However, I'm totally transparent. I'm not about trying to turn the world into a plant-based world, although I think we would be an incredible, incredibly different, more amazing human race. However, I'm about helping people get out of their pain and stay out of their pain. And I think that if you were to eat small amounts, maybe a couple of meals a week of those kind of... of the chicken and the fish the way you prepared it and you put it on an enormous amount of greens like you have, that the greens completely offset the negativity of the meat.
Andy: And you said in Paddison Program for RA "Make every bite right" and that really resonated with me and I've never forgotten that. I remember when I first started chowing down those salads and to me it felt quite unnatural sitting there eating lots and lots of greens. I remember times when I had them literally, I could see them coming out my mouth; the baby spinach with the stalks. I was sitting there thinking "If I could see myself I'm sure I would look like a cow in the paddock or a sheep eating grass." It's amazing how about six weeks down the track, something changes and it becomes the new norm for you. And not having a salad dressing now seems perfectly normal to me. In fact, when I see people put it on I just... it seems fine now. Whenever I eat anything, I am always conscience of making every bite right, so with that chicken? The ratio of chicken to greens and sprouts and seed and everything else that's going in with it would be a third of the bite would be chicken and the rest would be everything else.
Clint: Yeah, see. And the reason that things changed after six weeks or so is like Richard Matthews says in "The Symbiote Factor" – one of the podcast guests that we've had on a couple of times – is that your whole gut bacteria changes and so you've... the taste-buds are receiving messages from the brain that are like a chorus of bacteria all singing in certain tunes. And the one that sings the loudest tends to influence what we want the most because those species of bacteria all have a self-interest of survival.
Andy: You're absolutely right, because there was once upon a time when someone put a plate of sweet treats out in front of me or a big bowl of potato chips or whatever, I couldn't help myself. I'd be plowing through them. Now I see people with cream buns and doughnuts and things and I actually, I have no desire whatsoever to indulge in them. At all! I crave salads. I never thought I'd see the day. And juices! I hate it when I have a day when I get up and open the fridge and I look in the crisper, I haven't got a cucumber or celery or kale or whatever. I've downloaded lots of great juice recipes. There's so many good juice recipes. I've got myself a big Ninja now for various things. But also, I bought the same juicer as you, actually, that Breville I found fantastic. And it just gets used every day. I just don't crave bad things, I genuinely crave things that are good for my body and I never-ever thought I'd be that way. Do you remember in one of your videos on YouTube you actually said – you held up a glass of the celery and cucumber juice and you said "This is my favorite thing in all the world" And you drank it down and I remember the first time I drank it and I thought "I'll never say that!" But you know, If I have a day where I can't have it now, it's just not the same. I love it!
Clint: Oh, it's just amazing now isn't it? Now you and I also share something that we haven't talked about, but you mentioned in your Facebook post about your successes... I've got a, I've got quite a religious background and I went through a period where I was attending church a lot and I certainly have a strong faith in God and Melissa and I give thanks every night quite lengthily about all the wonderful things that we have in our life and we're very grateful people and we acknowledge, really, the amount that God plays in our lives. So I want to hear little bit about that. I know you're a man of faith and for those people who are looking for more than just the mechanics of this process, perhaps you want to share your thoughts on this.
Andy: Look, thank you so much for bringing that up, Clint, because it is a polarizing subject. I was careful when I put that on the post because for some people... and I did receive some negative feedback about it, but each to their own. Yeah, I am a man of faith and I firmly believe in God and the turning point for me, really was when I realized that I felt like I was putting 100% of my faith in the Paddison Program and no faith in God to help me through that last bit. And what I found was I got down to the three milligrams of Prednisone and I'd cut it down to two and I ended up with some pains creeping back in and I'd go three or four days and then I'd go back to three. And then I'd cut it down and I'd keep doing that. And then, when I really started praying about it a lot. And with some good Christian friends of mine as well, I'd just found suddenly there was a real change in my spirit and I knew that God was doing something through me. And then there was one particular night where I can remember where I had still been taking the Brufen and I was still taking two milligrams of Prednisone and that particular night we prayed about it and I woke up the next morning and that was the first day I woke up and I was absolutely 100% completely pain free. And then I went from, I stopped the Brufen completely that next day which was incredible because I was a bit fearful about stopping it, but I did. I stopped it and now I went straight down to one milligram of Prednisone, held that for the two weeks and then stopped that and it was gone. I just firmly believe that, for me personally, I would not have got 100% pain free and 100% off medications and feeling as absolutely, completely, totally, brilliant as what I do right now if it wasn't for God.
Clint: I completely agree. Absolutely, I mean I have the same comments to make, absolutely. I've always fallen back on my faith and prayed to God when I felt that things weren't working. Now I think we tend do that a lot more, don't we? When we have problems we reach out more than what we give thanks to, I think, because it's just we become desperate and we need help. But I actually went so far that I wrote in the book, you might recall, but I actually felt... actually I don't know if I put this in the book cause I've actually had the thought since I published that, I believe. But I felt in many ways that I got this disease – actually got the disease – so that God could act through me and for me to spread the discoveries that I made with other people.
Andy: You didn't put that in the book Clint, but you know what? I 100% agree with you because, sorry I get a bit emotional. I remember after I'd had the disease I spent the first three months not cursing God, but just being really down and depressed thinking "Wow, I've read the bad stories, I've listened to other people who've got Rheumatoid and this is, it's not a death sentence but it's not far from it. It's destroyed my life." But three months down the track from having Rheumatoid, so probably about September last year I decided I wasn't going to be down anymore. I started praising God and I said "Lord I thank you so much that you've given me this disease because" Sorry I didn't say that, I take that back. I did not thank him for the disease. "I thank you so much that even though I've got this disease, you've given me a faith in you that you will take me through this. And I don't know how it's all going to come together Lord. But I just believe that through this I am going to get closer to you and my life is going to improve." The next day, I was over... I told you how I met the next-door neighbor?
Andy: Well, some people would say "Well, he was living there anyways. It was only a matter of time before you met him." Well it the day after I prayed that that I was up at the back fence, heard the neighbor over there, got talking to him and he said he hadn't seen me outside for a few months. I told him I had Rheumatoid, his son had it and he said "Oh, he's on the Paddison program." And lo and behold I get onto the Paddison Program. And so, nine months down the track I looked back and I say there's no coincidences, really, when you believe in God. But it was me praising God and now I look back and say this is the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm healthier, I'm happier. But I'm definitely living out my faith much more strongly than I was before. I lot of people blame God for diseases and they blame God for bad things that happen. In fact, somebody said that when I put that on my post. Why does God give people these bad diseases? He doesn't. But the fact is that with faith in God, he can deliver you through these things and help you back on the right track through amazing people like you Clint, and it doesn't surprise me that you have that Christian faith as well.
Clint: Well that is really great stuff. Andy, mate we definitely share so much in common. Not just from the point of view of what we've done with our health, but also from the spiritual point of view. And I know people... Not everyone follows the Christian faith, but I do think that that everyone has a feeling that there is more to life than just live/die and that's it and there's no spiritual aspect. And I would encourage anyone to reach out to that less physical side of themselves and look for direction, ask for direction because it does come. And there is support there.
Andy: I agree with that 100%, Clint. I have... I'm being quite restrained here in my faith to be honest, because God has been the biggest part of this for me and my healing. I absolutely believe that 100%. I believe he led me to you and he has completely changed my life through this disease. It is the best thing that ever happened to me in more ways than one. I just thank you so much for your willingness to go through so much hard work and sacrifice and so on to get your message out there and up until now I have been so enthusiastically advocating for you. Even my Rheumatologist he wrote down your website and details because he's not opposed to things other than medication which was quite refreshing for a Rheumatologist. But now that I know your faith as well, I think that I will be advocating even more strongly for you, Clint.
Clint: Oh that's nice, we need a lot of people sending people in this direction because it's certainly a direction that's not the most common path and people don't understand and are not aware of or privy to the knowledge that you can make incredible improvements to your health. And in your case, I mean, you are pain free, drug free and back to maximum energy. Which is the motto that I wrote on the fridge that I wanted for myself and you've achieved it as well, so huge kudos. I want to thank you. What I want to point out to listeners is how important it was for you to get off the Prednisone and the non-steroidal anti-inflammatories because both those drugs have such a deleterious effect on the gut wall.
Andy: Yes, absolutely
Clint: So if you'd have stayed on those for years, then it would have been much harder for you to have made the improvements that you did. Because Prednisone it makes it very hard for the gut wall to create the mucosal lining which is the protective barrier where the bacteria like to live and also for the absorption of nutrients. And the non-steroidal anti-inflammatories cause more leaky-gut. So between those two drugs, you were on a path, a trajectory, to more gut problems.
Andy: And I completely understood that, Clint. And that was one of the things that really changed my mind and made me realize I had to get off them. But just quickly, one thing I would want to encourage listeners about, too, is, the sooner you respond to your Rheumatoid and determine that you're going to do something radical to get over it and put it behind you, the better. Don't do what I did. I only had Rheumatoid really for a year. And a year's a long time when you're in a lot a pain, who knows that? If I had got onto your program when I downloaded it in September last year instead of waiting until I hit rock bottom in March this year, I could have been where I am now before Christmas last year. So listeners, don't fool yourself into thinking that you've got to wait until things are really bad. The sooner you get onto it, the better, because you'll have less damage to your stomach, you'll have less damage to your joints and you'll have a much better longer term prognosis.
Clint: I actually think that you'll be able to get rid that nodule, too. I had nodules on the side of my foot, the side of my wrist... may have been starting to be affected but certainly on the side of my hand on the knuckle at the beginning of the pinky joint.
Clint: All gone.
Andy: Wow! I don't know, you might be able to see it.
Clint: Yeah, that'll go.
Andy: You reckon?
Clint: Yeah, I think you'll be able to get rid of that
Andy: That would be spectacular.
Clint: Yeah, so instead of back in the day when you where thinking of having it amputated...
Andy: We've come a long way since then!
Clint: Now I don't say that to try and... I'm genuine about that. I think it will go. Now that you don't have the pain as the feedback mechanism that you need to be testing foods, keep an eye on the nodule and see what happens to it as you... over the coming months expand into more variety of foods and continue to do all the natural things that you're doing. Use that as your feedback mechanism for how things are changing if you're not getting any pain anymore. Because it, I expect, will go down with time. My Rheumatologist used to tell me that those nodules could be rubbed out. However, I rubbed frantically onto those nodules many times and it didn't do anything for me. They just responded the same way my inflammation did with all of the changes that I made. And because it's been a while now, I can't remember if they faded away after the inflammation did or whether or not it was mostly simultaneous. But I seem to recall... like I don't remember ever having them long after the pain was gone. So I think that I would be optimistic about that, particularly the amount of progress that you've made to now.
Andy: Abso-- Yeah, I've come... if I get rid of the nodule that's great, but if it doesn't cause me pain it's not that unsightly, it doesn't really bother me. I'm just looking forward to the day that I can get a video made of me playing some tennis. And I'm going to upload it and send it through to you to say "Here's me playing tennis again" like you did that time when you went for your first run.
Clint: Oh, man, I'll never forget that. You talk about getting emotional. When I went for that first run, that was something special. We did that when Melissa and I got engaged. When I proposed to Melissa I could barely get down on one knee. All of my joints where hurting and when I proposed to her there was this emotion. It was at 5:30 in the morning as the sun was just rising over the mountains out in the blue mountains and there was no one else around. There was white cockatoos flying in the valley making their screech noises that are so synonymous with the Australian bushland. And as the sun come up I could barely get down on one knee. And there was this feeling in the air like, this is exciting and wonderful but boy, what are we in for with our future? What's Melissa committing to if she says yes? Is she committing to marrying someone who's going to be in a wheelchair or is she committing to someone who is going to make a go at this? To go back there several years later and then to run in the same location and her film me. That's something amazing.
Andy: Yeah, because I bought myself a brand new Babolat tennis racquet, a beautiful brand new pair of tennis shoes at the end of the 2013-14 season and I never got to use them because I bought them, I think it was April, thinking next season I'm going to be right into this and of course I never got to use them. So my son uses the racquet at the moment, but I'm taking it back off him soon.
Clint: That is brilliant! That's brilliant! What I would do in your situation, and forgive me if you don't want me making any more suggestions, but this is what I would do. I would... I'd practice my tennis with one of those tennis ball machines and just go, or have your son hit tennis balls at you and just, just go through it as though you were training to play tennis rather than going out on the court and doing all of the different shots all in a particular match. Train one shot for a day and see how you feel the next day then train your back hand the next day, train your forehand, train some serving. And if you isolate the movement and test one thing at a time, then you may find that, let's say there's only about 12 different particular shots that you can play. Backhand, forehand, overhand, serve, between the legs, behind... depending on how good you are. I think you might be able to say "Yes I can handle all the shots individually" and then you'd have great confidence, then, going onto the court to play a match.
Andy: That's a great suggestion. I actually think I'll do that because when I have had a couple of hurts I have just been hitting all the shots. I did find the backhand was the one which – I expected it would be – but that was the one that really hurt the elbow, but that was back when I first started the program. I'm a few months down the track and I wasn't pain free then either. I'll definitely use that advice.
Clint: Awesome. All right, well we've just about hit the hour mark so thank you very much. With a little bit of, we had a bit of a chat beforehand so maybe not quite the hour. Thanks very much Andy, I really appreciate it, mate, and what are you up to this afternoon?
Andy: I'm about to head down to the supermarket, big shopping list there. We've got some wonderful friends of ours in Christchurch here, they are from the USA, they've been living in New Zealand for six years and they've just got their New Zealand citizenship. My wife's out buying some New Zealand and USA flags. Some bunting or something and some little Kiwiana and I'm cooking us a beautiful Kiwi dinner which I'll be able to have most of. There will be a couple of things I can't have, but that's okay. That doesn't bother me anymore. So we'll have a good celebration with them tonight.
Clint: Well that's great, they're going to love Christchurch, beautiful part of the world. I'll be in Auckland in September or November, I'll have to check my diary so if you want to meet. We actually meet all of our, when I travel to various locations around the world where I've got community forum members, I invite all of our forums members to come meet and we have a bit of a get together and spend a couple of hours and it's really nice. If you'd be interested, I'll send you the details of where I'll be in Auckland and when.
Andy: Clint, that would be great because I actually travel to Auckland quite a lot for work so I'm up there this week, I'm up there the week after. I know I've got travel at the end of August up there as well and I've already got several trips in September/October. Most probably I'll end up with a date hopefully that will, God willing, be right at the same time you're there.
Clint: Awesome! Well that would be great. Well thanks very much Andy.
Andy: Cheers, Clint. Enjoy your afternoon.
Clint: Well that was our episode with Andy. What a great guy. What an inspirational story. Now after we finished chatting, Andy and I stayed on the call just for a little longer and I was still recording and he said somethings that were really inspiring, on top of what he had mentioned inside the podcast. So I just wanted to add these as our final few comments as we close out this episode. I hope you enjoyed it, see you again soon.
Andy: Being physically healthy and sleeping well and mentally sharp and happier and more relaxed, I'm not prone to all the natural things that I used be such as the same outbursts of anger and frustration and stress like I used to have. I still have all the same issues at work and that, but somehow I'm just so much calmer because my health is a lot better. And I'm just eating so good, I'm feeling so great I could just gush on about it for ages Clint, I really could because it's both physical and spiritual in perfect harmony. Eating foods like I'm eating now that have made me healthier and changed the gut bacteria and everything else, it's made me acutely more aware of what an amazing creation the human body is. And God created this body so it could heal itself and you know that as well. And it's amazing how when we treat it right, the way God originally intended us to treat it, it comes back into perfect harmony.
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