Stomach Acid And Rheumatoid Arthritis With Dr. Matthews
We discuss how:
– Stomach acid plays multiple roles in the body and its deficiency can lead to serious consequences
– Its role as a gatekeeper is crucial in inflammation prevention
– The action of antacids has to be balanced with supplements or other methods
– The balance between sympathetic and parasympathetic systems is another key factor
– Learn multiple ways to increase your stomach acid naturally!
Clint: A pleasure today to welcome back to our show Dr. Richard Matthews, who’s been on our show many times before. Today we’re going to talk about gut acid, hydrochloric acid and its role on inflammatory arthritis, and the body as a whole. Good day Dr. Matthews.
Dr. Matthews: Good day Clint, thank you for having me back again.
Clint: Always a pleasure. Now just to set our minds in the right direction, before we launch into this. A reminder that our issues with inflammatory autoimmune arthritis are described in the acronym that I created called BLAME, which is Bacterial Overgrowth, Leaky Gut, acidosis, acid secretion in the stomach, and that’s what we’ll be talking about today. Our mucosal lining depletion, and enzyme deficiency. And so with that as our framework we’re going to drill down today on stomach acid, and learn how it affects us, and what it does, and what we can do to increase if we need to. So Dr. Matthews what role does stomach acid play in the body? What’s it there for?
Dr. Matthews: The two biggest categories of roles for stomach acid are 1, as a gatekeeper, and 2 to break down proteins into usable pieces. When you eat something that has protein in it, particularly if it’s meat. But even other proteins, the stomach acid breaks the peptide bonds, so you release amino acids which are what proteins are made of and the more usable part of protein.
Dr. Matthews: So if you do not have enough stomach acid to do that, then you are proteins go on downstream partly undigested into the small intestine and colon. And if the proteins are meat proteins, they can then putrefy instead of digesting or fermenting. And putrefied just like the word sounds as a bad nasty and produces harmful chemicals with actual names like putrescine and cadaverine. A real molecule, but it is not something you want in your system because it promotes inflammation. So that is one of the major roles stomach acid, its role as a gatekeeper involves what gets through. So if you consider what from up here goes through down to our stomach, we have first whatever we eat and the stomach acid disinfects what we eat or at least tries to. So when you when you go to a Chinese food buffet, and the buffet is bad. And some people become ill, there are always some people that do not become ill, well usually. And safe to say, those are probably the people that have better stomach acidity. The reason that I say that, is that if you look throughout the biology of other organisms, there are several organisms with much greater stomach acidity than humans. And those organisms are always the ones who can eat dead things better than we can. Vultures, Buzzards as they’re known in southern US, Eagles to some extent it carrion, and most manner of canines like dogs or Cayotes, have such stomach acidity that they can literally road kill and suffering no ill consequences most of the time.
Dr. Matthews: We humans have at least some stomach acid and it does help us disinfect our food, our water. Things that when your friend hands you a breath mint, it passes through his fingers and whatever bacteria there on your breath mint, go in to your stomach. The importance of disinfecting what goes in, is that those become additions to your gut bacteria if they get through the stomach. So even the bacteria that cause oral decay that rot your teeth, and give you gum disease. Some of which are acutely important for people with rheumatoid arthritis. Those bacteria are supposed to be disinfected when you know, you swallow spit or something. All through the day, that brings the bacteria to the stomach and if the stomach has enough acid, then it can kill those bacteria and they don’t make it to your microbiome. But if you have gum disease, and you have Porphyromonas Gingivalis living in your mouth, and you swallow it and your stomach doesn’t kill it it becomes part of your gut microbiome, where it has been strongly associated with rheumatoid arthritis. When it gets into your blood supply, if you have leaky gut, it strongly associated with plaqing your arteries, and heart disease. So that’s something you want floating around in the system, you really don’t want that in your mouth either.
Clint: Absolutely. All right. So we’ve got the gatekeeper effect, and we’ve got the one the other side of the coin that we talk about all the time which is the protein digestion effect. Does the hydrochloric acid have to defend against anything else other than the saliva in our mouth, and the airborne pathogens that are floating around?
Dr. Matthews: In fact it does because whatever grows in the lungs ends, up populating the stomach. Our lungs are full of a little bit layer of mucus and the lining of the tubules in the lungs have little hair cells called cilia that are always moving like this to move the mucous outward. And the purpose of that is so that, dust, and pollen, and bacteria, that you inhale get stuck to the mucus, and the lungs can clear it out. And all of that ends up in your stomach. That is also why for example cigarette smokers have smokers cough in the morning. That is stopped by the morning cigarette, because cigarettes paralyze those little hair cells that are called cilia, And it’s also why cigarette smoke promotes stomach cancer, because it doesn’t just end up in the lungs it ends up in the stomach. But the bacteria that you breathe in, for example if you’re sweeping out the barn, or you’re changing your cat’s litter box. That dust that you can smell has bacteria in it, quite a bit of it. And a lot of it ends up in your lungs, and the reason you don’t perpetually have pneumonia is because your lungs are perpetually cleaning out. And they put all of that stuff in the stomach, which is where it’s supposed to be incinerated by stomach acid. Unless you do not have stomach acid and we’re back to that.
Clint: Wow. Okay. So everything that we’re, breathing in, into our lungs gets pushed back up by constant movement of mucus and then the mucus goes down into our stomach. Correct?
Dr. Matthews: That is correct.
Clint: And it won’t be harmful to us if our stomach acid protects us from all that by disinfecting it?
Dr. Matthews: Exactly. And it’s easy to think air is clean, but if you’ve ever tried to make your own wine, or beer, or anything fermented, you realize pretty quickly that if you don’t provide some kind of air lock to keep the air out of it that it goes bad. With a couple of exceptions. Kefir can be made pretty reliably, but beer and wine are really hard to make reliably without an airlock to keep outside air from getting in. As the bacteria will change the fermentation and ruin it.
Dr. Matthews: So the other thing that comes in really is from your sinuses. So same sort of thing, your sinuses as you breathe in, your nose cavity filters the air before it gets to the lungs, a lot of that sticks to mucous. And it reduces to some extent how much of the garbage ends up in your lungs. But what’s in the sinuses, drains into the throat, and into the neck, and we’re back to the stomach again. So it’s somewhat of a funnel point for things entering the human body from the top half. Same thing happens if you your ear infection or something it drains into your throat. You end up swallowing all of that. So there is no way to get around it, stomach acid is really quite important to disinfect those things. And really it is good reason to go farther than just restoring stomach acid but trying to keep the sinuses clear, and keep the teeth and the gums healthy, and brush, and floss, maybe use mouthwash. All of those makes a whole different importance when you realize how many sources of bacteria there are they get sent to the stomach.
Clint: Right because if we’re not taking care of it, in a way that we’re aware of, the stomach acid has to compensate and do all the heavy lifting. Now there is a common belief that the stomach acid, only gets released into the stomach when there is food consumed. And so what I’m learning is that, there must be a residual amount of stomach acid there at all times or the body considers this release of this other gunk into the stomach as the trigger for stomach acid.
Dr. Matthews: There is always some stomach acid, the acidity is stronger when you’re eating. But the other thing that happens is that the stomach is not as mobile when you’re not eating. So whatever goes to the stomach may just stay there until the next time you eat when acid is released to a greater extent.
Dr. Matthews: If you really need some proof of that, the easiest way to prove it is a simple thing called time released niacin. Which occasionally works like it’s supposed to but only if you take it right while you eat. Niacin, when you take it, if it isn’t time release it gives you a big flush, it gives your hot flush.
Clint: I did that one time. It’s B6 isn’t it?
Dr. Matthews: It’s quite a potent thing when it happens.
Dr. Matthews: Time release niacin is supposed to prevent that by breaking down gradually, but if you take time release niacin on an empty stomach. Very often there is no flush, until an hour or two later when you eat something. And you realize it’s been in your stomach all along you just didn’t absorb it. And then you eat something and you get the big hot flashes if you are just taken straight niacin. So the way the stomach works, the motor activity of the stomach that moves things downstream is activated by eating. So, while the acidity is not as strong between meals it doesn’t really matter that much, because it’s just going to collect whatever goes there until you eat.
Clint: I see. right, right. Almost like there’s almost a dam wall and it only releases once there’s enough, I guess reason to do so.
Dr. Matthews: Kind of does. I mean obviously water gets through so, if you drink a whole lot of water between meals You may still end up washing the bacteria downstream. But if your stomach acidity is working as it should, It’s not like it’s a neutral ph in between there’s always some acidity.
Dr. Matthews: I always look for entertaining practical examples. Anybody that thrown up between meals knows there is usually acidity involved.
Clint: The niacin one knows a classic, I’ve not told this story before but I went through this phase where I was just taking every supplement that I thought had even a remote likelihood of helping my condition. And the niacin was one of them, and I was told to or read about how you meant to take enough to give yourself this mild red flush. And I’d warned my wife that this may or may not happen. And anyway I went about just taking the dose that was recommended, and I turned to her about 15 minutes later and I said honey and I was about to ask her if I had turned red. She turned around and said what the, what’s wrong with you? I know I mean, I looked like I had been totally lying out in the sun for 3 straight days. I mean, I was red.
Dr. Matthews: Yes, and there’s not a whole lot you can do about it, besides drink like a half gallon of water and try to dilute it as quickly as possible. But it’s also…
Clint: It’s a good party trick at the very least. So moving along now, you know we’ve described the good working order a body in a good shape. Now how come so many people then take antacids and try to suppress their stomach acid? And you know when I was at an event recently with Dr Klapper, you know he and I were talking about the negative impact of these antacids, or proton pump inhibitors on the healthy microbiome. So we don’t want to be taking these when we’re trying to reverse rheumatoid or I guess have general good health. So why do people take them what’s going on with this suppression of stomach acid situation?
Dr. Matthews: Well there are really only two reasons that people take them. One is kind of temporarily valid, that would be if you have a known identified stomach ulcer. You may need to suppress acid temporarily, just in order to give the ulcer a time to heal so that it does bleed more and more and cause bigger problems. But for the majority of people, the reason that those things are given is simply because they have heartburn. And heartburn is interpreted usually as too much stomach acid, whereas really heartburn can often be the opposite. It can be caused by low stomach acid that results in an overgrowth of bacteria, or in some cases caused by an overgrowth of bacteria. And what you feel is heartburn, is what it feels like to have food sort of rotting at 98 degrees in your stomach instead of being digested, because there’s no acid and there’s too much bacteria. Or if you have reflux, if your lower esophageal sphincter, the thing that keeps the food from coming back up. If that is weak, then even a little bit of stomach acid will cost quite a bit of heartburn and start to in the long run damage your esophagus. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that there is too much acid, it means your sphincter muscle that’s supposed to keep it in the stomach is not working properly. And there are things, there are exercises that you can do to to restore the nerve function that helps it to work better.
Clint: Well perhaps if you could just share that with us now before we move on any further. So, let’s just put our little like Mr. Fixit hat on for people who are taking these antacids. What would be a way in which we can keep that acid in their stomachs, rather than throwing these unhelpful and counterproductive antacids into the mix?
Dr. Matthews: Well there are several things that I recommend to cover all the bases. One is a supplement called DGL (Deglycyrrhizinated Licorice), which is available in a lot of (inaudible) it’s called Rhizinate. But that is an treatment that increases the production of mucus in the esophagus, and the stomach, and the digestive tract. So it promotes healing, and that protects from any reflux that’s happening. Secondly, to understand how the sphincter muscle works, you have one part of your autonomic system that is involved in swallowing and digesting and not surprisingly it is the relaxed mode known as parasympathetic. But that sphincter muscle that is the valve into the stomach, is powered by your sympathetic system which is your stress system. So, the first one inhibits the second one. So when it’s working normally as you chew and swallow, your activating your parasympathetics. That inhibits your sympathetics which opens the door for the food to go to the stomach, just bing bang boom it’s just perfect sequence. However, if you’ve been under a lot of chronic stress, and you haven’t slept well, and you’re in a lot of pain. Your system is probably very fatigued, and then your sympathetic system that powers that valve doesn’t work very well. So the door is kind of half open and it never closes all the way. So either if you bend over, or you sleep horizontally on the bed, or even if you squat down sometimes you’ll get reflux. Because your sympathetic stress system is so tired that it can no longer keep the valve closed.
Dr. Matthews: What we do about that long term, the solutions are of course sleeping more in reducing stress. But there are a variety of supplement combinations that have been used to, usually it’s labelled as adrenals rescue which is your sympathetic system. So this could also be what’s called adrenal fatigue. Ginseng for example is one of the things that helps with adrenal fatigue, and the supplement companies have combinations of herbs that help restore adrenal function. In combination with the DGL, their functional exercises that you do. Those, all are exercises that focus on building what’s called vagus nerve function. Your vagus nerve is the parasympathetic nerve that comes from your brain out of brain stem, and powers everything that is controlled by our parasympathetics. Which for this discussion is most of the digestive tract as motored by the vagus. So chewing gum, all of these are things that tend to happen up here in the face, and mouth. Because all of those nerves grouped together stimulate the digestive tract, because we use them when we chew and eat. So, anything that is a tongue exercise, even just pressing your tongue against the roof of your mouth repeatedly, (inaudible) lips together, chewing gum, making sounds with your throat whether it’s humming at tune or practicing little alien voices, foreign accents.
Dr. Matthews: You know, if you’re driving down the road in your car, nobody else in the car. You might as well get something done and entertain yourself.
Dr. Matthews: Yeah, practice your Marvin the Martian voice. Deep breathing, which helps build parasympathetic function, alternate nostril breathing, where you breathe in through alternate nostrils, has been shown to boost parasympathetic function. All of the things that activate throat muscles tend to activate parasympathetic function. If you want an entertaining thing that you can do that combines almost all of those and is not recommended while driving. We go back to your home l and (inaudible) play the didgeridoo, because playing the didgeridoo is deep breathing, circular breathing in fact which involves a lot of throat, and tongue action. While working the lips to make a sound called the Drone, while vocalizing other sounds overlaid that are part of producing a rhythm. Of course, if I understand correctly, there are most of those sounds or animal sounds that they mimic with the voice over sounds. But all of that really really stimulates your parasympathetics. I knew somebody back when I practiced in Arkansas, who is a professional didgeridoo player. His wife played the flute, they put out a lot of video or audio discs together called Beautiful (inaudible) actually. And he had a long list of just amazing health benefits that you experienced from playing the didgeridoo so much. He swore that his hair went from pure white back to a normal brown color for example, over a period of about five years. I mean a guy worked in a health food guy or anything, that’s all he did was didgeridoo.
Dr. Matthews: So, building parasympathetic vagus nerve function, is very very important. And even as far as restoring adrenal function and restoring sympathetic function, all of the vagus nerve activation helps. Because strangely sometimes to get something better you have to inhibit it, which only makes sense when you realize if your adrenals are fatigued maybe you should turn them off for a while and let them recover. The best way to do that is to build better vagus nerve function. (inaudible) that tends to be one of the things that goes out the door, you can look most people’s changes as they go through life the changes that do not like. And many of them are tied to autonomic imbalance. That’s hair loss, impotence, dry skin, cold hands, cold feet, high blood pressure, constipation. Almost all of that, as things can almost always be caused by too much sympathetic function. And then later in life incontinence for example, is when the sympathetic system starts to fail. That’s also when older people tend to lose their night vision and cannot see well in the dark because you’re sympathetics are what make your pupils dilate.
Dr. Matthews: The plain house cat, you know the moment when the house cat gets a bit too serious. His pupils go really big, and you know you have a moment to back-off, your about to get (inaudible). How the sympathetic but, you can’t see in the dark anymore without using a flashlight, you’re experiencing sympathetic fatigue. It’s a very real thing, and goes along with reflux, with heartburn which makes people think that they need to take antacids.
Dr. Matthews: Sometimes the reflux does not actually cause heartburn if you don’t have enough stomach acid, but it can cause sinus infections, It can cause throat infections, it can make your voice horse, it can make you have to clear your throat all the time, it can cause asthma as it inflames your lungs. Most things are proven in research to be caused by silent reflux and yet, they’re very seldom attributed to that in the real world because there’s no obvious clue. But you have all this things you don’t have heartburn, you might still be having reflux. That may be a clue that you have little to no stomach acidity,.
Clint: Which is the problem with a lot of people with inflammatory arthritis. So the studies show that people with rheumatoid, psoriatic arthritis at least those studies exist. Showing that these folks have very low stomach acid. So we can move through this fairly quickly because you’ve already mentioned one of the consequences of this is the potential of a bacterial overgrowth. Because our bouncer at the nightclub they’re preventing all of these microbes from entering where they shouldn’t be, or bashing them over the head, they are allowed in. And so you can get overgrowth in the upper intestine. So that’s one problem, and that obviously has consequences. What other problems might exist, or what can result from having a intestinal overgrowth in the small intestine?
Dr. Matthews: Well intestinal overgrowth of bacteria where yeast really affects the immune system, and it creates a situation that can create everything from allergies to auto immune disease. So it may make you more allergic to your cat, or it may make your immune system start to attack your joints. Even more, it’s definitely not a good situation.
Clint: Right. So we’re going to talk about raising stomach acid. Is that the probably the No.1 strategy towards overcoming small intestinal bacterial overgrowth?
Dr. Matthews: Yes, and there are really two steps to the strategy. One is raising it quickly by taking something, and two is helping restore autonomic balance as I was mentioning before. Because in the long run that can help restore our acidity, but it’s usually not an immediate process like taking Betaine Hydrochloride for example.
Clint: All right, well talk us through that.
Dr. Matthews: Betaine hydrochloride, is a supplement, it’s a capsule that has stomach acid in it of sorts. Truly a plant-based acid but, the way that we implement this is you take 1 capsule before every meal for a day or two, and if that does not cause any heartburn then you take 2 before every meal the next day. And if that doesn’t cause heartburn you take 3 up to as many as 4 before every meal which is actually quite a bit. The idea being that, when you reach the point that oh yeah that gave me heartburn. That’s a little too much acid, and it just back off from that. And that should be an optimal level of acidity to help you digest your food. If you got up to 4 and it still doesn’t cause any heartburn, well it’s a pretty good sign that you have little or no stomach acidity. I don’t know that I would go over that, because that ought to be enough stomach acidity to get the job done one way or the other.
Dr. Matthews: It may mean that your mucus production is intact, so you’re not getting any heartburn, and you may not have reflux but you definitely don’t have acid either.
Clint: Okay, 3 questions with that. And number 1, is when you say before a meal. I wanna know how close to the meal? Like does it need to be just as we begin our first bite, or does it can it be a few minutes before? No. 2, I wanted to ask you. What does heartburn feel like for someone who hasn’t ever experienced it? And No. 3, would it be good practice for folks to take that mucus promoting herb that you mentioned earlier, irrespective of whether or not they feel they have any of the above issues?
Dr. Matthews: Well it’s definitely a good idea to take the mucous promoting DGL regardless, because it safeguards against all of the issues. As to what heartburn feels like? That’s very very variable depending on several things. One is, how much damaged your esophagus is? The first time somebody has some reflux it’s usually not painful, but if you’ve had so much reflux that the inside of your esophagus is raw and damaged. The condition it can even expose blood vessels and that’s known as Barrett’s Esophagus. That’s actually a precancerous condition if it goes that far. Then the pain can be really mirror of what you would expect from a massive heart attack. In fact, there are always people who are admitted to a hospital with a suspected heart attack that end up really that was reflux.
Dr. Matthews: It can be that bad, It can be quite burning and crushing. Usually in the beginning it sort of a warmth, and an uncomfortable feeling. The closest thing that I can explain is, if you’ve ever had a shot of good whiskey, generally that makes your tummy feel pretty warm.
Clint: Yeah. I can relate to that from Apple Cider Vinegar, taking apple cider vinegar for me just feels like there’s too much heat in the middle of my body that doesn’t feel right. Yeah.
Dr. Matthews: A big shot of bourbon or something will create quite a bit of heat there, it’s usually regarded as a good thing then it doesn’t last very long. But with heartburn it may last for an hour or two which might work or longer, which obviously is much more severe.
Dr. Matthews: But quite different for different people, but as a (inaudible) you should listen to the body and figure out, what is it trying to tell me when you feel something weird?
Clint: And what about, how soon before the meal with the Betaine Hydrochloride?
Dr. Matthews: I usually recommend 10 to 15 minutes before. If you take it longer than that before meal, you may get some heartburn regardless because there’s nothing there for it to digest.
Clint: Yeah, interesting.
Dr. Matthews: In real practice when I’ve had to use it myself, I usually just leave it on the table, and I take it and then I eat, otherwise I’ll forget it.
Clint: Yeah yeah.
Dr. Matthews: That works right also. But anywhere up to 10 or 15 minutes before, is what is usually recommended.
Clint: And if people suspect they have this SEBO, do you think that they will be able to notice any reduction in their joint symptoms within a week or 2 if they go down the supplement path with the hydrochloric acid?
Dr. Matthews: That is potential, I’ve seen it happen that quickly. It depends on how many other factors are at work promoting inflammation. For example if you’re SEBO and your low acidity is a relatively new thing, your gut bacteria may still be in pretty good shape. But if you’re figuring this out and it’s been happening for 5 to 10 years, your gut bacteria may already be a train wreck. And this is just one building block of fixing the problem, and you may not get any relief of those symptoms. When people really do see as relief for symptoms is, less short-term bloating and discomfort right after they eat. That probably the biggest, immediate symptom of low acidity or bacterial overgrowth is just feeling lousy right after you eat.
Dr. Matthews: You really should feel fed, and relaxed but not bloated or even in pain after you eat. It’s always surprising how much people can start to accept as normal. When you’ve experienced it for so long you had a forget. Oh yeah that’s really not supposed to happen.
Clint: Yeah. And especially if you haven’t got something so bad that you talk about it with other people particularly people at work you wouldn’t mention it to them other than your husband or wife. You know the symptoms are sort of restricted to basically discomfort after eating, as you say you can get used to that your entire life and think that that’s what everyone has and you don’t just bring this up with people you just think that’s normal. Hey, I met someone who…
Dr. Matthews: Television don’t help with that either, because they’re always there telling you. Oh you have that, well everybody has that. Just take Tums, it’s got calcium, something your body needs already. Which is just kind of a horrible lie, you’re not going to absorb the calcium anyway without stomach acidity.
Clint: So just to now give our audience a couple more ways in which they can raise stomach acid, if they want to go down this path in the guide for rheumatologist that you have helped me with that that’s available for free on my site www.paddisonprogram.com/guide. Which lists all the scientific studies supporting the Paddison Program and what it does, what’s entailed. We’ve listed celery juice as something that can help, and this supports the use of it in our program. So that’s one way. And you’ve also listed here or helped me with yoga, and that ties in to the whole vagus nerve angle doesn’t it? With the deep breathing.
Dr. Matthews: Yoga really is one of the things that can combine all of those autonomic balancing factors, on top of some other things that are a little bit harder to quantify. But you know it’s just a fun group activity that tends to reduce stress. Unless you’re the one that can’t assume any of the poses I suppose. But it is definitely a good stress reduction therapy It has been shown to reduce blood pressure, and that is proof in itself that it helps to balance your autonomic system. The celery has also been shown to protect against ulcers and protect the cells of the stomach. And really, it’s quite remarkable what can be done with it.
Clint: Which is good, because I drink truckloads of it over the years. And there’s a lot of potassium. Well there you go, again another mineral that we know is linked to clinical improvements to symptoms when you’ve got rheumatoid arthritis. So we love our celery and cucumber juice, we love our yoga, we can experiment with the Betaine Hydrochloride that you mentioned before and I think that’s you know that is something that I did myself. It was during the same time that I was going crazy with my niacin and all my other supplements, so I couldn’t honestly tell you whether or not it helped me or not, because there was just too many variables and supplements at the same time. And also in our guide for rheumatologist, meditation is also listed, and alternate nostril breathing. So meditation, and alternate nostril breathing.
Dr. Matthews: Absolutely.
Clint: So I think that wraps us up. For ways that we can increase our stomach acid, and it and it certainly is an endeavor that’s worth pursuing. Because we know the studies show that most people with rheumatoid arthritis have low or absent stomach acid. And we’ve heard from Dr. Matthews the consequences of that, the bacterial overgrowth. And we’ve heard how crucial it is to have adequate levels of stomach acid for our immune system, because the stomach acid is the gatekeeper for all of those functions that are going on in the body. Through the sinus, through the lungs, through the atmospheric air that we’re breathing in, and through our foods. So we really have to have good levels of stomach acid.
Clint: So Dr. Matthews thank you so much. How can people work with you, or learn more about your services and products?
Dr. Matthews: Well I have a website www.neurodoc4u.com. I write a blog, which I need to contribute to more often called the SymbionFactorblog.com. Where there are a lot of similar articles. And I wrote a book called The Symbian Factor, which is all about gut bacteria. And the stomach acid plays right into that, because our digestive tract goes one way most of the time. And whatever starts out at the top end, influences what happens downstream. And this is where it starts if you want to improve your gut bacteria, and that improves your immune function. I also have an online store that has a variety of useful supplements to help accomplish these goals.
Clint: Awesome. And you are working on a couple of things that will be able to tell people about in the future which is assisting people with their interpretations of very complicated stool sample reports.
Dr. Matthews: There’s exciting things in the works.
Clint: There are, there’s lots of exciting things. But if you haven’t got Dr. Mathews book, go and grab a fabulous read The Symbian Factor. And I will put the links to these other services in the transcription on our website for this episode. Once again thank you Dr. Matthews.
Dr. Matthews: You’re welcome. Thank you. Take care, and stay healthy.