The Goldberg Clinic – An Integrated Approach To RA – Part 2

We discuss how:

– Dr. Goldberg and Dr. Tener show some examples of their integrated approach
– Dr. Goldberg always brought case studies and laboratory studies in the classroom while teaching
– Laboratory studies provide an objective way of monitoring how the patient is progressing
– Dr. Tener introduced the use of videos as a new way of documenting how patients progress
– There are more than 100 videos with before/after material
– Three case studies with different characteristics are analyzed

Clint: Welcome back to the Paddison podcast. Our second of the two-part series with Dr. Goldberg, and Dr. David Tener, from the Goldberg Clinic in Atlanta Georgia. In this episode we are going to look at some case studies from their clinic, and learn about how they have transformed, and improve the lives of just a couple of examples of many many patients. Welcome back gentlemen.

Hi Clint.

Clint: Well, in our last episode we looked at the sequence in which someone experiences your clinic, and how you take them from when they step in the door. To how you then prescribe their laboratory work, and also their tests, and so forth. And then how you treat them from therefore onwards. Let’s now dive in and find out about some examples and how they were helped.

Dr. Goldberg: Okay. Well Clint when I started practicing, I was also a professor at a chiropractic college in Marietta Georgia, teaching clinical nutrition, gastroenterology, and rheumatology. And it was very appropriate for me I think, is that the experiences I had in my clinic where I was practicing full time. I would try to bring some of those cases into the classroom to be able to show to my students and they had about 100 students per class as I was teaching full time initially. And to show them actual examples, because you know when your school it’s kind a like the ivory tower. And your of your learning theory, your learning facts, and figures which you don’t really see too much really the first few years of live patients.

Dr. Goldberg: So it was very exciting for me to take into the classroom actual examples of what I was teaching them and show them, this is now the way it’s done. But here’s some examples that you can see, and you can see how what we’re talking about is actually helping people to recover. And our focus is the Goldberg clinic has always been reversing chronic diseases. So at first what I would do is I would simply bring in letters from the patients, and I would bring in laboratory studies before’s and after’s. One of the really great things about laboratory studies and I think some doctors use and correctly some doctors don’t. Is that they help us to identify some causal factors, but in addition to that they give us a way for us to monitor, is the patient progressing in the right direction? Are they improving in an objective fashion?

Clint: Yeah.

Dr. Goldberg: I mean we can ask the patients, are you feeling better? Of course, it’s always good to hear the patient says they feel better. But sometimes a patient can be initially feeling better and getting worse, and sometimes that patient can be initially feeling worse and getting better. So we have physical exam, and talking to the patient, but we also have to have some objective measures to measure that with and laboratory studies help us quite a bit with that. So I would bring in the laboratory studies I had allowed in my office as I do now, and then other laboratory tests will be sent out to various laboratories.

Dr. Goldberg: And so we could see what was the patient like on the lab setting when they first came in, and what were they like after 4 weeks, 12 weeks, 16 weeks, and we’re they progressing or not. If the patient show signs that they are not doing better then we need to say Okay, what do we need to do differently at this point? We don’t wanna just keep doing the same thing if the patient’s not doing good. So we started, I started to do the times before Dr. Tener was born actually. So we began to do case studies where the patient, we would interview the patient, have the patient write up how they were doing, and also showed them before and after lab studies.

Dr. Goldberg: In, when did you come on board? 2010 when Dr. Tanner was still a student, a chiropractic college student at the time, and my student. He began to work at my clinic as an assistant and being that he’s extremely bright guy and also a younger guy he had much greater abilities to use technology than I do. Because I’m starting to push 70, and Dr. Tener is in his at the time he was still in his 20’s. Has an excellent ability in many respects including his use of technology. So he said, doctor could I update the way you’re doing these things? And so we began to actually do videos of the patients showing them how they were when they first came in. And with the kind of patients we deal with like patients with rheumatoid arthritis, and psoriatic arthritis. Were they maneuverable, were they able to walk, were they able to get up from a table from a chair. And we began to film them when they came in, and then at intervals afterwards. As well as conducting laboratory tests as I had them doing, so we could show the progression that the patient was making. We then posted that on our website which is www.goldbergclinic.com, and that’s what Dr. Tener, what would they look for to see those videos?

Dr. Tener: Well the top of the page there’s a menu bar, and there’s a little tab called success stories, and you’ll get a drop-down menu, and there’s different categories of disease conditions that we work with and there is one for rheumatoid disorders, and all immune disorders, amongst others. And by clicking that, it’ll take you to videos that fall in that category. And collectively just over the past few years, there’s about a hundred of it and now we put up. And lot of them have before and after pictures, including patients’ joints, and their skin, and their weight, and all different things. And a lot of them also show that before an after-lab work, including markers like sedimentation rate, and c reactive protein, which are two markers that we use to monitor patients particularly in autoimmune and inflammatory disorders like rheumatoid arthritis.

Dr. Goldberg: And I’d like to add to that, that in every case of the patients we posted there. The patient has given us their permission, and their full name is given. It isn’t just, this is P, Z’s testimonial. This is an actual interview with the patient, and showing before and after of the patient, and showing their lab work as they progress. So we have both subjected and most importantly an objected data there. Now we’ve been collecting these 4, 5 five years now, we have more than a hundred of these studies now posted. So I would invite any of your clients, any of your people that visit your site who are interested to take a look at those. And we can also, we’d be glad to discuss a few patients with you right now do you like and tell us about what would happen with them.

Clint: Yeah, and I’d just like to add to that. It’s exactly the same way that I look for improvements with my clients and tell my audience. People ask what blood test should they get when they see their local General Practitioner or with their rheumatologist? It’s always C reactive protein, sed rate. Some people interested to get Anti CCP done rheumatoid factor. But my rheumatologist advised me many years ago that, although those indications of the presence of the disease in the body he is most interested in the inflammation. And c reactive protein and sed rate gives us that measure. And for most people, even if one-person C reactive protein at a certain level of symptoms looks different to another person C reactive protein with a same level of symptoms. What matters is the relative nature of those measurements for the individual. So if someone was to report a c reactive protein of 5 mg per liter, and then next month it’s a 4. Then we know that person has a little bit less inflammation, and that’s all we need to know. What’s relative for that person month to month. So…

Dr. Goldberg: I agree with that 100%, and there’s a lot of tests that are done for various antibody titers. We don’t, and when patients come in they bring us tests from their rheumatologist. I look at it as very very superficial, I’m most interested as is the rheumatologist you’re just talking about. Looking at those two very important markers, the sed rate – sedimentation rate which has been around for a long long time. And a C reactive protein we use something called the high sensitivity C reactive protein. Which is the same test, it’s just more sensitive, and those two things are excellent in measuring the amount of inflammation the patient has.

Clint: Yeah. And when I saw those all over your site because I’ve intermittently looked at your website ever since I was diagnosed. And did you know that if we were financially capable of attending your clinic back in the day when I was at my you know, extreme worst. Then I dare say we may have actually come over, because you are one of the very few clinics that can be found online. Who post the kind of recovery data, not just the pictures, not just the testimonials, but the data, and I’ve noticed that from day 1. And it’s only over the last few years however, and I think it’s from Dr. Tener’s influence, that the videos have come up. There seems to be a more frequency of communication through your site to the mailing list. And yes it’s just great to see that explosion of sharing of positive news with the world, because you know it’s what the poor people who are looking for help, looking for guidance and going to bed each night thinking Lord guide me tomorrow as to how I’m going to get better tomorrow. Need to see in the clutter, and the noise, and the misinformation that’s online. A ray of true hope, and ray of true light, coming through. So, well done guys. Let’s hear about a couple of examples.

Dr. Goldberg: Okay, we’ll just these people that we’re going to mention. we talked about doing two of them with you today Clint. Then you’re your viewers are welcome to go to our Web site and see as many as they’d like.

Dr. Goldberg: They are also, there’s videos of them on the site so they can go and get a more detailed look, they can actually see the patients. So we’re gonna use their actual name because a name as well usually the first name, and the whole name is on the side as well. And we’re gonna talk about first of all about a man, a very nice gentleman whose name is Andy. Who came to us was about three years ago, for about three years ago we first saw him. We pretty much completed his care. About, what about 6 months ago?

Dr. Tener: We still see him periodically, but he’s gone through most of the process already.

Dr. Goldberg: And Andy’s in his early 60’s, very very nice gentleman by the way, a really likable person. And he came in, and he had been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. And when Andy first came in it was very difficult for him to move. He had trouble getting up and down from a chair, very difficult to walk, and he is a sales person for a company which makes artificial turf right? Astro Turf. Yeah and I can’t stress enough is this a very likable person as is, his wife is a lovely lady too. And we did a physical, we did a case history of him and one of the things he came up with Andy is that, his job was a little stressful but nothing to out of the ordinary. Very nice home life, has a lovely wife, he and his wife has a very good relationship. Lives on a little plot of land maybe 80 miles from our from our clinic, we get people from all over the world but Andy wasn’t our far away about 80 miles away. And so we did a case history, we did a physical exam, we did the appropriate laboratory studies on him. And then we started to work with him, and he was on at the time. He was on large doses of Prednisone, he was on Methotrexate.

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Dr. Goldberg: Andy was not experiencing any positive effects from this other than he had some suppression of his symptoms, but he has swelling in his joints, and he has a tremendous fatigue. One really exceptional thing about Andy, is that despite all these he was, he was not a big complainer, and a very very good-humored guy. He was a real pleasure to work with particularly, because we could see his hands were terribly inflamed and enlarged, his knees were enlarged. And it was clear just in the way he was had so much trouble ambulating and based on his laboratory tests. Which initially, why don’t you pull it up Dr. Tener.

Dr. Tener: Yeah, I was just pulling up his original inflammatory markers on the computer here and these I believe are posted on the website. When he first presented in April of 2016, he had an hsCRP at 9.2.

Dr. Goldberg: And that is an hsCRP, not a CRP.

Dr. Tener: Normal range less than 3 for that so a CRP of almost 10 based on this test, he had a lot of inflammation, he’s in a lot of discomfort.

Dr. Goldberg: With hsCRP we see people that are at even 2 on that, that are still inflamed. I mean, medically you have to, your viewers understand that the ranges that they use medically, are different from the ranges we use for a person being in good health. So for a person for example, for a male that will oftentimes with a sed rate is normal up to about 15 sometimes even 20 you’ll see. And a male even an older male has a sed rate who’s 15 or 20, they’re inflamed. There’s a lot of inflammation going on there. Not that you can’t be a lot higher, but that’s always inflammation. And for a CRP which, hsCRP which the medical system, the laboratories, say is normal at 3. If somebody has a CRP or hsCRP of rather 3, they’re inflamed. So we actually like to see that less than 1, we regard it less than 1 as being normal.

Clint: Let me just add, thank you so much for saying that. Because I’ve been saying that for years, and this is the first time I’ve heard it myself. I used to notice inflammation in my body, anything above a high sensitivity CRP of 1. And that was my goal for myself as well personally that I found, because I found that if I was anything above one I used to still feel a little bit my fingers, and I used to still feel a bit at my knee or arm, wherever it it might be. So there you go, I found that for me that was my guideline. And I encourage people to be always aiming for the lowest possible number because normal, as you’ve just said eloquently. Normal which might be below 3 or 5 mg per liter, there’s still inflammation in the body. You can still feel it, you can still see it. We need to get it as low as possible.

Dr. Goldberg: Yeah and it is not only for the comfort of it, but because we still have a disease process going on when those numbers are elevated. And with the CRP or hsCRP, you’re looking at inflammation on the body in general which we also not only contribute to painful joints, and muscles, and stiffness. But also to an increased risk of heart attack, and stroke. So we want to, those numbers we know and in fact that your viewers may know that this is CRP stands for Cardiac Reactive Protein. And initially that test was used primarily by cardiologists, and interestingly a lot of them they don’t make much use of it I think they should. Because it’s a wonderful test to be able to measure the patient’s general level of inflammation. And the CRP and sed rate should both be done really, because they don’t always run hand in hand. They are measuring different things in the body, so we wanna see one of one, and one of the other to monitor the patient properly.

Dr. Goldberg: Andy was, have both a high hsCRP. I believe was his sed rate also high Dr. Tener?

Dr. Tener: I don’t recall, we used on the CRP primarily.

Dr. Goldberg: We used it on him (inaudible)? At anyway long story short, we started with a CRP at 9.2. What did we end up with?

Dr. Tener: The last thing we checked it was 1.9.

Dr. Goldberg: It was 1.9.

Dr. Tener: So it came down a lot. The interesting thing about Andy’s Clint. As I recall it’s like it was yesterday. Was that, Andy went through a lot of ebbs and flows in the course of getting well like most patients do. In some cases where as we were monitoring a CRP, we’ll see it come down some, and it might increase a little bit, and it will come down. And so, patients have to be patient, that’s one thing that we tell them. The CRP can fluctuate for a time but over a long period, or a period of months. We want to see the net effect of it going down. Andy in the course of working with him, had some significant ups and downs. And one of which is that he had kidneys stones, he was passing kidney stones about halfway through. As his body was detoxifying, breaking down old tissues, and waste residues. Part of that process was the elimination of accumulated material in his kidneys that his body was then expelling. And so he had a tough time as he went through that process but he stuck it out. He was very persistent, he was persevering, and it was at that period that we saw actually spike in his inflammation.

Dr. Tener: So Andy made it through that said period and as he was coming out it was a real breakthrough for him. As he came out of it, we saw the CRP start to drop considerably. But this was about 6 to 8 months in, so Andy proved out 6 to 8 months he was having considerable ups and downs, and ebbs and flows. But he stood with it, he had the right guidance, he understood the process, what to expect, and the ups and downs that’s often needed or required for a person actually to make a breakthrough and get well. and so his case was a real classic example.

Dr. Goldberg: Exactly and he actually felt worse before he felt better. And today he has absolutely no symptoms at all, he is symptom free, he’s able to work to the full extent that he wants to, and he’s able to help his wife on the little farm that they have there. They have horses, and they have chickens, and they have dogs, they have all. They’re lovely people, they have lovely animals. The animals are all like family to them as well. And so the animals have a good life, and Andy is able to help out his wife with all the chores there now too including baling hay, and feeding the horse, and doing all the hard work that a farm life requires.

Clint: Did he stay with you for some time? Or because of his proximity, did he just visit?

Dr. Goldberg: Well he, we have two ways that we work with patients. He was willing to make those visits to see us. And so we saw him probably what, about every 2 to 3 weeks? And for patients that are farther away than Andy, because in our practice Andy was actually considered kind of close, he was within 70 or 80 miles. For people that are out of state, or out of the country, we have to have people from your country, Australia they come to see us. We have to see them originally in person for 1 visit, and then we will communicate with them via email, sometimes by phone as well. For the long intervals of 2 or 3 months, before we may wanna see them one more time after that.

Clint: Right right. I see.

Dr. Goldberg: We put people on e-mail contracts when they are required to be in contact with us on a weekly basis. They can write to us as often as they wish, but they have to write to us at least 1 time per week so we can monitor what’s going on. Because when you first put a piece on the program, it’s not like that program’s gonna be what they’re gonna do for the rest of the duration. Things are going to change. I’m a fairly experienced guy after 40 years, but I can not predict with the 68 billion possibilities of genetic make up (inaudible). As exactly how the patient’s going to respond, so we stay on top of it with them and make changes as the patient progresses. And Andy, we do some email but we also have to come in for visits every 3 or 4 weeks.

Clint: I think it’s important to add as I’ve just brought up your website and I’m just easily located Andy’s story. He’s completely off drugs now to (inaudible). Yeah I mean, it’s profound. What you’ve achieved for Andy, and if I may do a humble brag I have achieved for some clients as well. But it’s considered medically impossible.

Dr. Goldberg: Yeah (inaudible). Here’s the thing about all these diseases which they call non-reversible. If you want to go to the North Pole, and you’re in Florida. And you go to Florida, and you head south wards, you will never reach the North Pole. Let’s say you just wanna go to Ohio, and you’re in Georgia. If you head south, it will be impossible for you ever reach Ohio, because Ohio is north. So is it true that rheumatoid arthritis is incurable? Yes, it is true under medical care. There is no way a person unless there is intervention from God which we call a miracle. There is no way that person is ever going to get well under medical care. But that is different in saying that the person can never get well. So for example if I have a car with a bad fuel injection system, and every time I go to the mechanic he keeps replacing the exhaust system on the car and the problems with the fuel injector. And he says to me, the problem with your car is incurable, it cannot be fixed. And he is right, as long as they tried to cure the bad fuel injector by replacing the exhaust system. The car will never run right. So if we address a problem whether it be rheumatoid arthritis, or any of the other or immune disorders, or any problem, that is chronic, and is considered irreversible by the medical system, and we simply take these so-called irreversible chronic diseases and apply drugs to them. They are indeed incurable, because we’re not taking an approach which is entirely incompatible with recovery by normal biology.

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Clint: Yeah. Hear hear. Now, you just give us some little bit of an insight into what you did for Andy, because you know you’ve told us how wonderful his personality and how lovely his wife was so we haven’t really got too many issues there. What did you uncover? Maybe just some bullet points here. What you uncovered some areas that you could work on? And just some general sort of information for us, as to the way that you guided him.

Dr. Goldberg: Okay. Well I think that people who are watching us, and you will find this interesting because it’s right along the lines I think of what a like the work that you do Clint. And that Andy’s primary issues of nutritional, and slash dietetic in nature. Andy is one of his very kind of a, we call the Yang personality, a very warm person, heavy set. When you shake his hand of course, when he first came in it was he shook my hand like a 110-year-old lady, he has no strength at all. Today, now he’s back to good health again, I will not tell to squeeze my hand as hard as he can (inaudible) mashed potatoes. He is incredibly a strong person, and a very warm person, a very Yang personality. A kind of guy that’s also, I warned him this is also subject to cardiovascular disease, heart disease, and stroke. We wanted to make sure we prevent it from heading down that road as well.

Dr. Goldberg: So the first part of our journey with Andy, was uncover what was going on, what was wrong. So that was, as we talked about the first segment of this presentation, was to do a good thorough case history, and physical exam, and laboratory tests. When we did a report of findings to him and this included we had done a dietary analysis. For us most of what that involves, is the patient writing down for two weeks everything that they eat. And I tell them don’t try to impress me, however it is you normally eat. That’s all I want you to write down there, I want to make no changes. And what we call that Clint, we call that 1st two weeks the period of discovery. We’re running tests in-house, we’re sending lab kits with patient to send to the various laboratories. And I’ve worked with most of these labs as a consultant over the years, so I have my own little twist the way we run these tests. And then the patient is collecting information on their own including, writing down for 2 weeks everything that they eat. So we looked at Andy’s test results, and we looked at his diet. We found a lot of different things are wrong. For example, this diet was very heavily meat-based diet. It was very, a diet that was full of red meats, and junk food, and things that we don’t regard as healthy for the individual. And I think his cholesterol level that it wasn’t one of his cholesterol was high it’s not normal. So we told Andy, we’re going to have to clean them up inside. I also talked him about his use of steroids, and how we suggested that he just talk with his rheumatologist about weaning himself down off of those. So that was a matter that we recommend and how that would normally be done. So that need to be done in coordination with medical doctor.

Dr. Goldberg: So the first step was to start to reduce the medications while at the same time we put Andy in his case who put him on liquid diet. We have various liquid diets. I’m certified in fasting supervision, I worked at a place in Florida in the 70’s where I was a fasting supervisor. I supervised thousands of people, we’re doing fasting just as water only. We don’t do a lot of that with people, but we do put a lot of people on liquid diet. Just be broth, or vegetable juice, or some type of rice protein. There’s a variety of different things we can use depending on what we think is going to work best with the patient. So we put Andy on a liquid diet for a period of probably about 5 to 7 days. And then we did intervals, gradually his weight began to drop. He started (inaudible) various securities under the system, we monitored him with laboratory tests as well as physical examinations, and we began to see changes and blood work as time went along.

Dr. Goldberg: Eventually to get to the very end of it, he is now, Andy is now on a pretty much we recommended the plant-based diet. There’s a good book that gives good guidance, and good evidence for that which I used to use in my classes, called The China Study which I recommend recommended people by Dr. Colin Campbell. And although, I’ve been using a plant-based diet with not all my patients, but with the majority of them for 40 plus years. Dr. Campbell’s book gives actual scientific studies which supported as well as I’ve seen for most of our patients that’s been the dietary choice for them. But it before, we just couldn’t simply say here don’t eat that way, eat this way. We had to first clear out some of those impurities out of the system, and that was the somewhat painful process for him.

Clint: Yeah. Okay. Well that is absolutely fantastic. You know obviously his life is totally different, his outlook for the rest of his life is different, his relationship now with his wife is gonna be different, his day to day experience is different. And you know I think that I can very much appreciate what it feels like to get someone those kinds of results. And congratulations on Andy and I’m sure his life will never be the same again for Andy. So that is that is wonderful. You’ve been very generous with your time. We’ve sort of reached the time that we thought we might run to. Just wondering if you’d like to share another story, or whether or not we should.

Dr. Tener: Yes sure.

Clint: Awesome, thank you.

Dr. Tener: (inaudible) that I can share, And one of them is short. So I can probably…

Clint: Yeah let’s do that, let’s do that. Yeah.

Dr. Tener: The reason I selected these 2 for you is because, I think they helped to illustrate the differences between patients and the varying reasons why people develop these problems. One of the cases was with a young man named Anderson, who came to see us back I think in 2012 or 2013. And his case is also on the website, a little boy with inflammation in his knee. You can see it in the pictures that are posted there. He was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, and he had developed that problem and he was two years old, the initial onset. We saw him when he was seven, he and his mother I believe came to see us somewhere from the New York New, Jersey area. And he had seen rheumatologists, and medically they kept injecting his knees with steroids which would suppress the symptoms temporarily as it does in most cases. But the knee inflammation once the steroid wear off, and after he got off of it would come right back.

Dr. Tener: After that the rheumatologist wanted to give Anderson Enbrel, which is a biologic TnF alpha blocker. Which we in touch on a whole lot today, but we do see quite a lot of patients on that category of drugs to. It’s actually a two-part article on our website on the dangers of biologics. Which I would also encourage you or your audience to read, because those are drugs that a lot of these patients end up on as well. Anderson’s mother is not sold on going down that road. She is well aware of the potential side effects of those drugs particularly for a young boy, like her son. And so, Anderson came in and we did a history on him, physical exam got the appropriate lab work. And in Anderson’s case there were a few factors that played a role with him. but the big thing that really showed up with him that he was I was he was severely allergic to milk. We did a specific kind of allergy profile on him, and I think the cut off our normal in terms of the antibody count was less than 300. His showed up well over 2000 to milk, and that was the major factor that really allowed for his recovery was getting him off milk. And then setting some other parameters to support his health and his recovery.

Dr. Tener: The reason I bring this case up, is most cases and I don’t want to give your audience the wrong impression. Most cases are not a result of just milk allergy, that just happened to be the big factor with his case. But you see a young boy at 7 years old, who is headed down a path where the rest of his life is going to be miserable, or he is either gonna develop, he’s gonna be on drugs like Enbrel, he was gonna be on repeated courses of steroids. He may have developed cancer from being on those drugs. When really boiled down to some simple things that we needed to change with him, and within a couple of months he was running around playing little league baseball again. His knee, you can see the pictures on a website where his knee was swollen and inflamed, and the after picture about 60 days later. And so you take a child who may have had a very different life if you went the other direction and in his case it boiled down to some simple things.

Dr. Tener: The other case I wanted to share with you was a woman named Patricia, who came to see us a couple years ago. And we don’t have a full testimonial video with her on our website but, there is a video on there of her getting up off our exam table at our initial visit. She really had so much inflammation, and swelling, and pain that she could not take herself up off the table. And then we have her after video about a year later for being able to pick yourself up and walk normally.

Dr. Tener: The reason I bring her case up is that, it contrasts well with the case I just saw you, because the factors in her case we’re very different. This is the one, I think in her early 60’s, very pleasant lady, came in with her husband from Tennessee. And she had also developed her rheumatoid issue that resulted in significant inflammation to her hands. Her grip pressure was very weak, and affected almost all the joints of her body, her gait was significantly affected. A lot of the activities of daily life where she’s not able perform as a result of her condition, she is pretty badly debilitated. Her rheumatologist wanted to put her on the same course of drugs that we see most patients on, but in her case she had declined those medications. And we saw her kind of at a crossroads there, where she could have gone down the medical path or explored other options, and she ended up in our office. To make a long story short, the main factor in her case was there was a significant emotional trauma that she experienced in her family, and I’m not gonna share what the event was. But it was significant enough that have stimulated her immune system, and in our opinion really set this off. There were other factors in terms for habit she was drinking alcohol, her diet wasn’t great for most of her life. She had had other stresses in her life as well.

Dr. Goldberg: Just wanted to say she was drinking alcohol, but she was not alcoholic.

Dr. Tener: Correct. Exactly. I just wanna clarify that too. So there were some other factors that may have gradually set the stage for this over time, and Dr. Goldberg was talking about the total load of accumulated stressors that people have throughout the course of their life. And in many cases, there’s a straw that breaks the camel’s back. And so in her case it was that significant emotional trauma. And in getting her well, there was a period where we were doing some counseling with her, some emotional counseling. She was receiving some counseling outside of the clinic as well. In addition to working with her from a physical stand point, get some physical body work, and in periodically putting on liquid diets, and do fasting with her. I’m working on her digestive tract eliminating toxic habits, that we could gradually reduce the total weight of the total load of the accumulated stressors on her.

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Dr. Tener: And in the course of doing all those things together, she gradually chipped away at it, chipped away at it, and had a lot of ups and downs like most of our patients do. But you can see with her persistence, and hard work, and the right guidance, after a period of a year. A significant difference in her physical capabilities. Her video, her before and after video in terms of her getting up and off the table was on the article on our website called Reversing rheumatoid arthritis. And at the top there, her videos are shown. But again, it just shows you in contrast to the case Dr. Goldberg talked about, in contrast with the case with the Anderson, just how different these patients are. In Andy’s case, it was a big dietetic factor. In one case, there was a significant emotional trauma, and in another case, there was a significant allergy that set things off.

Dr. Tener: So when you work with people that have rheumatoid arthritis, you really have to ferret out the specific individual factors that are going on with them. And then tailor the process to help them get well.

Clint: Yes fantastic wonderful. Anything you’d like to add to that. Dr. Goldberg?

Dr. Goldberg: No I think it’s a nice contrast, because as Dr. Tener pointed out. Her problems were primarily trauma based, emotional trauma based as opposed to the case you heard right before that which was that the child was juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. We actually see, we see many many patients with rheumatoid disease. We don’t actually see that many children with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis, not because they’re not out there. But because most parents do not wanna bring their child to anybody else other than a medical rheumatologist when they have it. And that’s a very sad thing, because those kids get locked into that system. And for many of them, I mean there was a just a few weeks we had this kid entirely well out there playing soccer again. But there is a lack of confidence of taking a child to anybody else other than a medical rheumatologist when they have juvenile rheumatoid arthritis.

Clint: Most definitely, and I know that you know so much more emotion involved when it is not yourself. When you have the condition yourself, you think look this is your making decisions for yourself. So it becomes very emotional when you’re trying to make decisions on behalf of a child. And if people go down the most popular route, which is the Western medicine approach. Because it’s where all the social pressures at, from their family, and their cousins, and their loved ones, and friends, and just saying look just get them on the medications, protect the joints. That’s because the, you know and yes it’s a horrible thing. I mean you know I think the only time I’ve ever cried on one of these episodes was, when I was interviewing a mum who has a similarly wonderful story to the one you just shared. About the little boy with juvenile idiopathic or rheumatoid arthritis, with a similar wonderful recovery. And you know I cried I mean, this because this stuff’s real, this is a little boy. I mean he has the rest of his life ahead of him. This isn’t just you know we’re in the business of manufacturing, and we’ve worked out a better way to develop our production line. This is someone’s life, you know this is, this doesn’t get any more important than this.

Dr. Goldberg: Yes when we think of all the lives, over the decades that have been destroyed because people have taken a drug based route. I mean for me as soon as a doctor tells me we’ll there’s no hope you ever really got to be better, but we’re just going to do things to protect your joints and keep you comfortable. I would turn, as I did I would turn the other direction I (inaudible). But because, and you put it very well Clint, because it’s a socially acceptable thing to go a pharmaceutical route. It is acceptable to as you said, the relatives, the neighbors, and so forth it takes the social pressure off. And takes away that feeling, and I don’t want to do the wrong thing, it’s my child to take care.

Dr. Goldberg: But when you think about all kids whose lives have been ruined, by going down that route for the rest of their lives, is very sad indeed. But the good news is, by addressing causes. And by making, taking the steps, do the hard work that’s necessary, these problems are reversible.

Clint: Yes, well I hope we’ve done a great service to our audience, people who’ve watched this, listened do this. To be able to contribute to ways in which they can take action now, and potentially go onto your website, make an inquiry, and find out whether or not it makes sense for them to come and visit the Goldberg clinic, or do the Paddison Program, or you know perhaps some combination of both. But I want to extend my deep gratitude to having you both share so much of your time today. I know we had to schedule this interview well in advance, because you’ve got so many patients that you’re working with. And we’ve been able to set aside some time, and reach a very big audience now to be able to help them and give them another option.

Clint: I just want to tell you guys which I have not mentioned either offline or in these couple of interviews, that it’s not common that I have doctors on the show and get their input. Because rarely do I see eye to eye with what they’re talking about, and rarely do I want to actively encourage my audience to seek them out. And that’s not the case of course with Goldberg clinic. It’s certainly as I said right been in my radar, right back when I was sick. And I was considering, if it was financially viable to visit you back then, and anyone who now has the financial means, or the proximity, or the interest to come and visit you. I highly encourage them to do so, because with the work you’re doing I think is second to none. So I want to thank you again for your time, and I just encourage you to go to www.goldbergclinic.com. Check out for yourself all of the testimonials with supportive data online and you will see that this is the real deal. People are making massive improvements to their lives, and that the options there. If you would like. So thanks for listening this episode. Thank you Dr. Tener, thank you Dr. Goldberg.

Dr. Goldberg: Thank you.

Dr. Tener: Thank you.

Clint Paddison

Clint Paddison has recovered from crippling Rheumatoid Arthitis and now assists others with this disease via the Paddison Program for Rheumatoid Arthritis, the Paddison Podcast and the blogs on www.paddisonprogram.com